Doug Landis on this episode
Doug Landis, CRO and co-founder of Story Path, joins RevOps Live to discuss how the buyer-seller relationship has fundamentally shifted in response to AI-enabled research and the changing sales environment. With 11+ years leading sales training at Google, Salesforce, and Box, Landis brings deep expertise in how sales organizations must adapt their processes and mindsets to thrive when buyers conduct invisible evaluations before ever engaging a sales representative.
The old linear, seller-controlled sales process is effectively dead, and organizations must shift from process compliance to situational fluency. As buyers increasingly use AI to research solutions, conduct pricing analysis, and narrow vendor shortlists without leaving signals, the traditional qualification-discovery-demo-close sequence no longer reflects buyer reality. Landis emphasizes that 80-95 percent of the buying process now happens without seller involvement, and buyers are making sophisticated decisions armed with AI-synthesized insights before a first call ever occurs.
The reframe centers on understanding buyer situations rather than sales stages. Instead of asking "what stage is this deal in," teams should diagnose where the buyer actually stands: are they problem-aware but not urgency-aware? Do they have a champion but lack consensus? Have they been AI-generated short-listed down to two or three vendors? This shift from process orientation to situation awareness requires rethinking pre-call planning, first-call strategy, deal reengagement, and even pipeline reviews. Landis proposes operationalizing buyer fluency through specific frameworks: define your most common buyer situations, map next-best-actions and belief changes for each, and redesign opportunity reviews around buyer reality rather than seller activity.
The episode dives into practical implementation, including how managers should question deals by asking "what does the buyer need to believe next?" rather than "what's the next step?" Landis and host Eddie Reynolds explore real-world examples of knowing when to disqualify deals, how to follow up without falling into checking-in theater, and why stories—not case studies—are the mechanism by which sellers transfer belief and create internal consensus in a multi-stakeholder buying environment.
What we cover in this episode
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0:00
Invisible buyer evaluation Buyers use AI and chatbots to conduct deep research, pricing analysis, and vendor comparisons without leaving digital breadcrumbs or engaging sales.
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5:00
Situational fluency over stages Shift from linear sales stages to understanding buyer situations: problem-aware, educated but not committed, champion without consensus, or solution shopping.
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10:00
Pre-call planning transformation Sellers must anticipate high research levels and plan conversations around buyer beliefs, missing stakeholders, and internal consensus needs rather than discovery questions.
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20:00
Belief change as mechanism Most deals stall because buyer beliefs remain unchallenged; stories create belief transfer more effectively than case studies or feature recitation.
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28:00
Buyer situation operating model Framework for defining common buyer situations, mapping next-best-actions, and organizing content and training by situation rather than product or sales stage.
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32:00
Deal reviews and manager questioning Reframe pipeline reviews from what's-the-next-step theater to what-does-the-buyer-need-to-believe-next conversations centered on buyer reality.
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40:00
Knowing when to walk away Disqualify deals by understanding buyer situation and beliefs; recognize when timing, capacity, or priority misalignment makes deal unlikely and redirect seller effort.
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48:00
Operationalizing situational selling Three elements for adoption: keep it simple and repeatable, show success stories in practice, and reinforce through manager deal reviews and daily motions.
The lines worth sharing
The sales process is dead almost. The old school linear seller-controlled version is gone.
Doug Landis · 4:40
Buyers are able to do what I call an invisible evaluation. As soon as you go to Google you start leaving breadcrumbs everywhere.
Doug Landis · 9:45
We're not in stages. We're in situations. The buyer's situation could be problem-aware but not urgency-aware.
Doug Landis · 30:30
What belief do they need to believe next? That's different from what's the next step because that's buyer-focused.
Doug Landis · 33:51
Common questions from this episode
How has AI changed the buyer research process?
Buyers now use AI chatbots to conduct invisible evaluations without triggering sales signals. They can research solutions, analyze pricing, narrow vendor shortlists, and build internal business cases before ever contacting a seller, moving 80-95 percent of the buying process offline.
What is situational fluency in sales?
Situational fluency means understanding where buyers actually are in their journey rather than fitting them into sales stages. It involves identifying buyer situations like problem-aware-but-not-urgent, champion-without-consensus, or actively-shopping, and tailoring seller approach accordingly.
How should sellers prepare for first calls when buyers have already done research?
Pre-call planning shifts from discovery questions to belief validation. Sellers should anticipate what buyers already know, identify likely beliefs that need changing, map stakeholders who must align, and prepare stories that transfer belief rather than recite features.
Why do sales deals stall?
Deals stall because one champion is excited but others in the buying group don't see the problem as relevant or urgent. The champion lacks clout to build consensus. Sellers must shift focus from moving the champion to helping build belief across all stakeholders.
What should managers ask during deal reviews instead of what's the next step?
Ask what does the buyer need to believe next and what beliefs might other stakeholders have. This buyer-centric question reveals whether momentum exists among the full buying group and where belief change is needed to advance the deal.
How do you know when to disqualify a deal?
Disqualify when buyer beliefs indicate they have capacity constraints, internal momentum is blocked, timing is misaligned with their priorities, or one champion cannot build broader consensus. Understanding buyer situation prevents wasted effort on low-probability opportunities.
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Read the full transcript · 65 KB · Doug Landis
DOUG0:00this notion of the sales process that we've banked on for the last 40, 50 years.
DOUG0:05I'm almost at the point where I want to say, like
DOUG0:07the sales process is dead
DOUG0:08almost.
DOUG0:09buyers are able to do what I call an invisible evaluation.
DOUG0:12just think about just if you were going to make a buying decision. What do you do. You're not going to go to Google because like, look, if you're smart, as soon as I go to Google I start leaving breadcrumbs everywhere. Now guess what I'm getting?
DOUG0:21I'm getting inbound emails. I'm getting phone calls. I'm
DOUG0:24ads served up to me. All because I went to Google.
DOUG0:26the reality is
DOUG0:28We're not in stages. We're in situations.
DOUG0:30the situation could be like for
DOUG0:32I am problem aware, like I'm aware I have a problem, but I'm not urgency aware.
DOUG0:36I know something is broken. I just I'm not really sure where it fits
DOUG0:40my my list of priorities
DOUG0:41in terms of what needs to be fixed
DOUG0:42there's so many different situations that a buyer
DOUG0:45is likely stepping into now because of the way in which they can interact with information
EDDIE0:58actionable playbooks from the trenches working as go to market strategy and rev ops consultants for our clients here at Union Square. Consulting and candid conversations with revenue leaders in the market that have been there. Now let's get into it.
EDDIE1:13Today we're going to talk about how buyers using AI is changing the sales process. Our special guest today is Doug Landis, CRO and co-founder of Story Path II. Story path helps enterprise revenue teams turn pre planning into situational preparation. We turn outside in buyer context into sharper insights, buyer specific stories, and clear next steps so sellers can show up with confidence, communicate with meaning, and earn the next conversation.
EDDIE1:44If it wasn't already apparent I was reading that off the screen. It's not we, it's them. But I hope you got the message anyway. And I'm not going to do that. To me, it's a we we're all trying.
DOUG1:55To do the same thing. I mean, you know, we are all on the same page trying to do what's best for our customers. So there you go. It's a collective week.
EDDIE2:03Absolutely. So Doug was a former growth partner at VC firm Emergence Capital, where we got to know each other. He was a former chief storyteller and VP of sales productivity at box. And over the course of 11 plus years, Doug was leading sales training at Google, Salesforce and Box. So a lot of experience leading sales training, talking about how sellers can sell better.
EDDIE2:27And that's what we're going to get into today. So here's what I want to talk about. Buyers are increasingly using AI to research solutions without triggering any intense signals, without engaged, without engaging sales until later in the cycle. How does the sales process need to adapt to this new normal? Doug, thanks for joining us today to answer these questions.
DOUG2:48I'm excited. Let's go. It's great to see you too, by the way. And to your audience. Like,
DOUG2:54I don't know who your audience is other than the fact that I know you're all operators. And in the world of operating right now, shit's just changing and it's changing wicked fast. And I think, I think the biggest thing that's changing right now is the buyer seller relationship.
DOUG3:09And and that's it. That's affecting not only sellers and how they show up. It's affecting buyers and what they're already doing ahead of time. But it's also affecting rev ops and operators and how we're thinking about how we support the process, whatever the process is or might be. So this is a really important conversation to have and it's very top of mind.
EDDIE3:27And I'm happy to give you context. I don't know who our audience is either. I can tell you like the ages that show up on Spotify and Apple, but that's how we make this show for it's primarily for chief revenue officer and mature organizations, and to a slightly lesser extent, VP's of rev ops and other strategic go to market leaders.
EDDIE3:44We've got a lot of CMOs that listen to the shows, CFOs, etc. and our main thing is trying to figure out, you know, how do we blend the strategy and the process and the systems. We do that in our work. And that's what we talk about on this show. And this is a great opportunity for this particular topic, because all anyone's talking about is AI.
EDDIE4:01And every single post on LinkedIn is how there's this new prompt that you can slap into Claude, and you can double the productivity of your sales team. And nobody's talking about how this has changed in the buyer journey. So I'm excited to get into it.
DOUG4:15Yeah, actually, you know what they're really not talking about, which is what I'm going to we're going to I want to double click into is how I mean, this notion of the sales process that we've banked on for the last 40, 50 years. It needs to change. I'm almost to the point. I'm almost at the point where I want to say, like the sales process is dead dead, almost.
DOUG4:40I'm not fully going to say that because I know that's going to perk a lot of, you know, a lot of hairs on people's arms, like, what do we just spent all this money into doing this new sales process? What are you talking about? But I will say this. The old school linear seller controlled version is.
DOUG5:00There's a twist. Took the pin out of the hand grenade, throw it over the fence. Let's see what blows up.
EDDIE5:07Well, let me, let me let me take the bait here for a second because.
DOUG5:11I know. Just see it up for you here, Eddie. Come on.
EDDIE5:15Well, okay, so I think you've been in this game a little bit longer than me, but I started my sales career. Depending on where you draw the line, because I started selling before I was even in college. But I'll just draw the line at around the year 2000. And I remember even at that point in time, hearing similar things.
EDDIE5:36Oh, buyers are using the internet. People come in. They're already prepared. They know the product better than you know. As a seller, they have all the pricing. I was selling cars like in my college. They know exactly what like the invoice is on the car, etc. etc. they know more about the car than you do. Okay, cool. And then now fast forward 26 years and I'm hearing buyers are using AI to research.
EDDIE5:56So what's the delta for you? You've been selling even longer than me. Obviously the internet's not a new thing. Buyers doing research online is not a new thing. How is this evolved and changed over 30 years?
DOUG6:08So I believe the environment between buying and selling is way more fluid and dynamic right now than it ever has been before, because of what everyone has available at their fingertips before buyers were able to do research. Yes. True? Absolutely. And before sellers followed a very static, linear, old school sales process. Let me take you through my discovery questions and then demo and then negotiate and close.
DOUG6:33Right. Like pretty pretty standard canned process, if you will. What I believe now is changed is in this more dynamic, fluid environment that we live in, we now need to start thinking about this notion of how do we operationalize situational fluency? What does that mean? To me, that means helping a seller understand actually where your buyer is. What does your buyer already believe?
DOUG7:03What are their beliefs walking into the situation or conversation? What's what? What do they need to resolve? What actions are going to move the deal forward? So it's a matter of moving from like process compliance, like follow my process. By the way, do you remember how like we moved from sales process to the buyer journey? Do you know what changed the words?
DOUG7:23Nothing actually changed in the process, just the words. So what is this notion of like going from process compliance, which is basically what we've all that like cross we do this like comply like are you following all the steps and the sale stages. And it's not to say that that's completely wrong. We just need to shift it to this notion of what I'm calling buyer fluency, because what's happening right now is like this.
DOUG7:46Most sales processes are like they operate in a world where the seller had control, right? Qualify. I'm going to qualify. I'm going to discover, I'm going to do my demo, I'm going to propose, and I'm going to close and super tidy. It's very CRM friendly, but I don't I don't think we live in that world today, especially given what you said in the beginning, which is like what you'd 80% of the buying process is done without ever engaging a seller.
DOUG8:13Like, what is it? 60 somewhat percent of buyers would prefer to actually buy something without an actual sales conversation, because they're just like they're not getting a whole lot of value out of those conversations. And so it's like the question you have to ask is like, how do we stop forcing our buyers into our process and start helping sellers respond to the buyer's actual situation?
DOUG8:33That's what I mean by situational fluency.
EDDIE8:36Yeah. And so I did, you know, multiple hours of research before this podcast and went all over your website and read all your stuff, and the audience doesn't have that advantage. So I want to unpack a little bit about what I read. And, you know, on your website, you talk a lot about how this buyer journey has changed and how they're using AI to move even further through the process.
EDDIE8:57And I'll summarize it by saying, I think people were researching things online. You know, you go and you Google a couple of different solutions, you end up reading through a white paper, maybe there's some gated content and now, you know, you're spitting off intense signals. And then at some point in time, you've got to reach out to the sales rep to find pricing information, other things.
EDDIE9:14And I think pricing is a really good example where even that, like you're trying to backdoor it and figure out, like, is there some like Reddit thread that will tell me what their pricing is, because I don't have to talk to a sales rep just to find out their pricing. And now AI can do all that for you.
EDDIE9:27Can you elaborate on how that's really changing the buyer journey right now?
DOUG9:30Yeah, totally. Well, it's it's buyers are able to do what I call an invisible evaluation. Right. So just think about just if you were going to make a buying decision. What do you do. You're not going to go to Google because like, look, if you're smart, as soon as I go to Google I start leaving breadcrumbs everywhere. Now guess what I'm getting?
DOUG9:45I'm getting inbound emails. I'm getting phone calls. I'm getting, you know, ads served up to me. All because I went to Google. So if I, if I were making an important buying decision right now. So let's just say like I'm looking for a new AI for CRM, I'm not, by the way, just everybody listen listening. But let's just say that that was the case.
DOUG10:04So what am I to do? I'm going to I'm going to open up cloud and be like, hey man, let's just cause my buddy like, hey, let's here's my situation. I need to find a new CRM. I'm not happy with what we're currently using. And here are all my parameters. Here is what I'm currently using. Here's what I like and don't like about it here.
DOUG10:22I want you to help me think through my options. Here's what I can afford on a monthly basis, here's what's really important to me, integrations, etc.. So like I can just map all this out cloud, build me a plan and be like great cloud. Now whittle this down to two particular vendors. Help me understand which one might be a better fit.
DOUG10:38Help me understand what questions still need to be addressed once I actually do have a conversation with a salesperson, because I feel like fundamentally, I will want to because I want to understand them. I want to know the level of support I'm going to get. I want to I want to have a I want to have a human that's in the loop with me in this process.
DOUG10:53But guess what? I've gotten 80, 95% of the way through the buying process before I actually have a conversation with a salesperson, before I even engage with the company, like, I'm not. I don't need to go to their website. I don't need to go to the webinar. I don't need to click on their materials like I'm good.
EDDIE11:08And to me, when I hear that the way I interpret this is, is that it's the same as it was before, and that buyers are doing the majority of their research before talking to sales, but they're going even further. They've got more insights, less questions need to be answered about features and functionalities and pricing. And so how does that change how a seller needs to approach the first call?
DOUG11:28Yeah. Well, I think I think a couple of things need to happen. Number one, sellers just need to not necessarily assume, but have a very strong hypothesis that your buyer is already doing this level of research. And the difference before is what buyers were doing was researching and they were getting data back. And then they would have to extrapolate that data and then use that to help them kind of form their list of questions or the things they need to better understand before they get on the call.
DOUG11:55With a seller right now, I can have a back and forth conversation with the bots, right? They're like, okay, what am I missing? What about pricing? What's my angle if I want to go in and negotiate with them, what could I actually do? So I'm having this conversation now. It's pre it's kind of the preset conversation before I actually talk to sales.
DOUG12:15Whereas before I'd have to do all that work on my own. So here's here's the difference. From a seller's point of view, if a seller doesn't anticipate that their buyers are actually already doing this, then they're going back in and they're thinking, well, what stage is this opportunity in? Oh, this is sitting at stage one. So I need to do discovery.
DOUG12:32The better question that we should be asking is what buying situation are we? Are we actually in. What is the situation that we're stepping into. And in fact, if you're going to go into a model or if you're going to go into story path, one of the things I would suggest, you know, like your prompt or the conversation you want to have on the model is like the situation you're in now, if you're in our product, we already have the context of the opportunity.
DOUG12:58So that's really easy. We already understand everything that's going on. If you're in another model, then you probably need to give it some more context. But the reality is this buyers are. This is what I mean by situational fluency. We're not in stages. We're in situations. So the situation could be like for example, I am I am problem aware, like I'm aware I have a problem, but I'm not urgency aware.
DOUG13:22I know something is broken. I just I'm not really sure where it fits in my level of my my list of priorities that, you know, in terms of what needs to be fixed now. So. Right. So it's like, you know, you've had a conversation with somebody like, yeah, it's an issue or like, yeah, we've talked for a long time.
DOUG13:36We've been thinking about a long time fixing this. But that's like there's no urgency there. That's just the situation I'm in. That's that's different than it's like, okay, I've already been doing all this. I've been breadcrumbs and you've got all this signal and, you know, I'm actively looking because I spent a ton of time on a pricing page.
DOUG13:53You knew I spent a ton of time on the pricing page. You're kind of walking into that situation a little differently because you've got all this, you've got more context, and all of the power is kind of shifted to buyers like, you know, buyers. This situation, like I might be solution shopping. I might be curious, but not really ready to commit.
DOUG14:08I might be like, you know, I'm kicking the tires, but I can't. I have no idea how to build consensus because I'm new. Like there's so many different situations that a buyer is likely stepping into now because of the way in which they can interact with information that's different than before.
EDDIE14:26Makes perfect sense. Let me go even a step back before we go a step forward and ask about call preparation. So let's just say that, you know, I'll stay away from outbound for the moment. And let's say this league came inbound because they're doing all this research. And it's the first call that the sales rep is having, whether they're an STR, bdr, a what have you, what type of like, how would you change the way that you think about call prep and account research prior to the first call?
DOUG14:51Yeah, that's a great it's a great question. I think I think a couple things. Number one, I think we need to automatically anticipate the fact that they've done an enormous amount of research. Just anticipate that. And if that's the case and it came in bound, then that likely means that we could be one of 2 or 3 potential partners that they're evaluating, like they likely whittled down from 10 to 3.
DOUG15:15By the way, how cool would it be if right out of the gates, you just kind of call that out and be like, I'm curious, is that where you are in your kind of, you know, buyer fluency right now? Is that where you are? And you're like, is this your current situation, I guess. And by the way, hate using those words current situation because we're there's many of us old school sellers that are hard wired say spin selling.
DOUG15:37What's my situation problem impact me pay off. Right. But like what I'm really trying to assess is like, where is this? What is this, the current buyer situation? But think about this from a prequel planning some of the questions that I am going to think about ahead of time are maybe a little different. Maybe it's like, what might the buyer already know about us, about what value we deliver, about who we work with, about, you know, how we've solved problems like this before.
DOUG16:04I might also think I might also some questions. Other questions I might consider are things like, well, what do I think this buyer might be trying to figure out right now that they maybe weren't able to figure out by jumping into a chat bot? Who else might be involved in this? Because every decision involves 8 to 10 people.
DOUG16:23If it's over $10,000, how about this? This is an important one. What beliefs do they already have or might they already have? Because I don't know for sure. And the reason why I keep using the word might is because these are things that I just want to pressure test or validate or refute in this conversation. Other things like what might what what proof might be necessary for them in order for them to build some confidence in order to build some internal championship, internal champions.
DOUG16:48And of course, lastly, like what might what story might work best for them and in terms of their ability to actually have a, a, a, a really rich and compelling conversation internally because like buyers look, 90% of a deal is is done when you're not in the room. Right. So these are the things that I want to be thinking about my prequel planning.
DOUG17:07It's not just like, here's what you have to know about them. Here's what questions to ask. Here's what objections you likely say. Like, I don't know why I put on this surfer voice, but I think it's just like feels very rudimentary when you start thinking about different questions based on the fact that they've already done this homework. I think it kind of changes the way in which he prepares.
DOUG17:26So that's a great framing.
EDDIE17:28Yeah. For what it's worth, I've been in sales, like I said, for like 30 years. I've still never understood the concept of objection handling. There have a problem you want to solve or you don't. And I don't get this whole like, let's do the Ben Franklin clothes and like draw a line down the middle of the paper. It's like, okay, I don't know, maybe I'm just not a great salesperson, but know that out.
DOUG17:44But here's the thing, though. What you're doing is you're distinguishing the fact that it's not objection handling.
DOUG17:49I'm actually stepping into a situation where maybe they're curious or they're afraid, or there's too much risk on the table, or they just need to better understand some things. Right. So objection handling is like this is a thing that you do, you know, like conversational awareness in the moment means like, hey, I'm picking up on the fact that Eddie, yesterday when we had a conversation or last week when we had a conversation, you were super hyped, you had a plan in place and you're like, and but now it feels like something's changed.
DOUG18:19Like, I am now just awake and aware to this energy shift. This happened. What happened last week?
EDDIE18:26Yeah. And I will not pretend to be the world's best salesperson. But the way that I think about it is I'm just trying to solve a problem. And the way you describe it, it's like we're trying to solve this problem together. Maybe things have shifted and it's more difficult to sell internally. And if you're the buyer in this scenario, I'm just like, Doug, like, how can I help you solve your problem?
EDDIE18:44And so that's where objection handling is always throwing me off. And like it just feels like manipulative and like, let's just roll our sleeves up together and try to figure this out. And if there's not something to figure out, that's okay. We can both part ways as friends. But anyway, I want to take this back. You know, as I mentioned in the prequel, we want to leave our audience with these tangible takeaways.
EDDIE19:01And I was planning to leave this to the end. But if I'm a zero and 100, let's say I got 100 salespeople, right? And I'm a serial, and I just heard everything that you shared on the pre call planning. How do I turn this into a process that's going to result in my salespeople actually executing on the things that you shared?
EDDIE19:18Since you have so much experience at doing this exact thing, like how do you think about rolling this out across the sales org specifically right now, since we just talked about it on the prequel planning.
DOUG19:27On the prequel planning? That's the great question. So I think there's a couple of things I'll give you like four steps to take. You can actually take from a call process perspective, but let's move away from process and call it more buyer fluency.
DOUG19:44Or buyer situation. Or how do we how do we raise our situational awareness. Like let's just call this situational selling. Like, come on, let's come up with a whole new phrase you guys heard here. First, we're coming out with this. But like here's here's an example. So instead of thinking of the sales skill as discovery right. What we really need to focus on is interpretation.
DOUG20:04Do you know the people who are the really great sellers? They're just like aware of what's happening, right? And so it's like a great seller to me can interpret the kind of buyers context really, really fast and, and can actually operate within that new context. Right. So it's like so if you think about it, like what I'm doing is I'm trying to I'm going to train my sellers on how to interpret buyer situations versus how to ask you a series of questions, which feels oftentimes like a Spanish Inquisition.
EDDIE20:38Well, for me, a lot of this, like what you're describing comes down to like, emotional intelligence, right? It's like, am I. Following this script or am I interpreting what I'm seeing and and meeting the buyer where they are?
DOUG20:48Yeah. So how about this. So you want some tactical suggestions? Ideas? How about this I'm going to call this. And y'all are like, you guys are hearing a lot of stuff for the first time, but this is like the future. This is what I believe is like the future of selling. And I'm just stoked about it because this is what these models are actually creating.
DOUG21:05So we're going to start the tactical ideas or recommendations is we're going to build a buyer situation operating model. Oh what is that. Oh my gosh it's.
EDDIE21:16Not a convention Doug.
DOUG21:17Yeah yeah the song I love. All right you heard it here first okay. So check this out. So instead of like, you know, the 22 step or 38 step sales methodology, you know, nobody else needs another laminated, you know, hostage note of like, let's do this. Right. So what I think the first thing that we have to do is we have to kind of define our buyer situations.
DOUG21:44What are like the most common buying situation is your team sees define those like a common one would be like they're educated but not committed. The I've got a champion without consensus I situation might be an AI generated short list right. So they've they've already compared us with a whole bunch of folks. And so and they've already done this whole like AI evaluation.
DOUG22:10So part of maybe what I need to do is reframe the criteria. Right. So like if they're but not committed, let's say I need to like I like they understand the category. And maybe they've done a ton of research but there's no urgency there. So like how do I go to my conversations about it but be about like creating urgency?
DOUG22:29How do we create urgency? Right. It could very well be like build versus by right. They're doing their analysis to determine, like if we should build this and if so, what's fully involved. So there's buyer situations that are common to every single organization. So cross out there. Go build those. What are the top ten buyers situations we most commonly face like executive pressure.
DOUG22:51I don't know. No decision drift whatever it may be then. So create. So number two create your what NBA's next best actions for every situation right. So for each situation go back through those that pre called planning process and define these define like what is the seller need to understand what belief needs to change. And by the way belief is so important.
DOUG23:21Like belief is a really big deal. We have to understand that like most buyers have some predisposition. They've got some belief, especially if they're doing a ton of work ahead of time and they're in a model, they're already kind of creating a framing in their head of like, oh, I believe that this one's a little better. This one might be a better fit.
DOUG23:43Oh, I know Eddie's friends with these folks. They're like, oh, you know, like, I believe whatever FUD that happens to exist out there in the market, there's some set, some some belief that they have that we need to better understand and in order to change that.
EDDIE24:00I love that, by the way. And if I could just touch on that, like I've basically been selling some version of Salesforce for the last 15 years, you know, first the actual product and now, you know, the the rev ops around it. And for me, it was always like, I don't want to try to change somebody's religion. If there's a revenue leader out there that's like, look, we just need to make more calls and use our whiteboard and, you know, go around the horn and ask everybody what's going on with our deal.
EDDIE24:23Like, that's that's the way to hit our number. I'm like, it's too difficult for me to change your beliefs or I don't know why, but I thought Michael Jordan, I remember watching the documentary where he started lifting weights, and that was like a new thing in the NBA. Now, it's not like the idea that you're going to be lifting weights and have a nutritionist and like you're using science to, like, become a better athlete.
EDDIE24:41But if you go back to like the 70s or 80, like nobody believed in that stuff. So there had to be a point in time where somebody was trying to sell that. And it was really hard because everybody's like, why would I do all that stuff? And now now everybody believes it.
DOUG24:54Yeah. So so think about this. So like I think every CRO, every sales leader, every rep should just ask themselves, what do I think the buyer already believes? Like what narrative are they already carrying into this conversation. Right. Do they believe that the problem is urgent? Do they believe that the category is important? Do they believe the categories commoditized?
DOUG25:14Do they believe that they can solve it themselves? Do they believe that their incumbent is good enough? Do they believe that the risk of change is too high? I don't know, but if I create a list of beliefs the buyer likely has or might have, guess what? This is part of the conversation that I want to go in and have to try and uncover and potentially refute.
DOUG25:34Right? Because if I can't, if I can't identify the right belief, then I can't actually help them choose the right move. Now, by the way. Here's an interesting thing when it comes to belief. And this is what I love this, that we're having this conversation. So if you think about like what stories actually do and I love the Michael Jordan example, stories create belief.
DOUG25:59Think about that for a second. This is why this is why I've been on this like I don't know, this this maybe to a tiny little soapbox for way too long and it feels like it's about to break. But like on the soapbox about storytelling because stories create belief. And you know what storytelling does? It's the mechanism that gets people to believe.
DOUG26:19This is why I think every sales person needs to become a better storyteller, because it is. It's the mechanism to actually transfer that belief. Stories create the belief customer stories, the experiences that people are having, the moments right? Not case studies. Those are not stories or case studies, but as a seller, you need to get really good at being able to recreate or tell stories in every conversation, because that's going to help you transfer belief anyway.
DOUG26:45Belief is a really, really big part of this process, right, that I'm recommending. Like so your next best action for every situation. One of the situations is, well, what do we what do we think they might already believe. And as a result of that belief, what action should we recommend?
RACHAEL27:02Everything we talk about on this show. Diagnosing go to market ops. Prioritizing projects for revenue. Impact processes. Metrics. Insights. Building a predictable go to market engine. We've built frameworks for all of it. They're free and undated on our website. Union square consulting frameworks. The link will also be in the show notes, so make sure you check that out.
RACHAEL27:24All right. Back to the episode.
EDDIE27:26I want to drill down a layer further and I'm going to like I'm going to stick on the whole process thing, because what I'm hearing is I'm hearing a lot of really amazing questions that a rep can be asking themselves, eventually asking the customer, doing their research, etc. but let's say you've got 100 person sales team.
EDDIE27:42How do you actually get them to do this consistently? So I'm imagining you've got some some documents you might hand them here's like a set of questions to ask yourself for the client. There's training. And then after that what. How do you ensure that your reps are actually following this process. And as we talked offline, not necessarily to a T like paint by numbers, but how do you get them to execute this consistently?
DOUG28:03Yeah. Well I mean I think look we we everybody likes frameworks and everybody likes, you know, kind of like I tend to think of an L five. You know what that means?
EDDIE28:14I don't.
DOUG28:15Explain it like I'm five five. So how do we make this really simple? So how do we make this simple. Will we give them a framework. So here's an example. So let's say one of the beliefs are that I've got a champion in there but they've got no consensus. Right. So as a seller what do I need to understand.
DOUG28:34This is my first question. I need to understand who else needs to believe. Great. So what belief needs to change? Well, maybe the belief is that this is not a top priority for everybody else in the organization, or it doesn't solve a shared business problem. Cool. So I can actually fill these in. So like okay. Are their assets that I could use that can help me transfer this belief or align everybody around this problem to build consensus?
DOUG28:59Perhaps, I don't know. This is where I'm going to go and pull out some assets. What questions might I ask to help drive a conversation around building consensus? Things like, you know, when you discuss this problem, we're not having a conversation when we're not in the room. What do you kind of expect you might hear from your peers or from other people that you want to that are likely going to be involved in this conversation?
DOUG29:22And then let's map out like, okay, what's what are the next steps in order for us to earn another conversation? So the reality is we've got to put something in practice, in practice, like we've got to make something practical, like a simple framework for a rep to follow. Right. So there's the the first step is like okay, let's define the buyer situation.
DOUG29:40Second step is create next best actions for every situation. And in particular make sure you get into what belief needs to change. Because that's a really big one because people actually move based on their beliefs. The third step is like let's redesign opportunity reviews around the buyer reality, right? Pipeline reviews are like seller theater. Well, what's the next step?
DOUG30:01I talk to this person. Great. They committed. They said they're interested. Right. But like the question is if we can continue to use those five questions, let's shift shift the conversation to like what is the buyer's reality? What are they still trying to resolve? Who's missing from the conversation? What's the cost of doing? I mean, these are things we're already talking about, but we need to talk about in the context of the buyer's reality.
EDDIE30:23So I love this, and I want to share a story that can articulates where I'm coming from with a set of questioning. So you mentioned spin selling. You ask me if I'm familiar with it. Yes and no. Okay, so I was the first AI at a fintech startup that built a solution for private equity venture capital on top of Salesforce.
EDDIE30:40So we were effectively selling Salesforce licenses, where I was like the one and only sales rep in the company. So my boss, who didn't have like a long history of being in sales himself, hands me the spin selling book. Here's spin selling. Knock yourself out. I read the book, I read through the book, and I spent an entire year trying to figure out how to implement it.
EDDIE30:58And I remember when I interviewed at Salesforce, they're like, you need to do a presentation walking us through your sales process. And I remember putting together this presentation and trying to talk about how I used spin selling to sell at this previous company is the worst presentation ever. I don't know why Salesforce hired me. It was awful. I never understood it because there was no reinforcement layer.
EDDIE31:17I didn't walk into Salesforce and you know you worked there as well. I mean, you were part of this. They just serve it up to you on a silver platter. And I remember going to training maybe six months into the job and I'm sitting and training like, I already know all this stuff because this has been like baked into, like the muscle memory of, like the daily motion.
EDDIE31:32And specific things come to mind. One specific fields that would now be like medic fields on the opportunity page layout and Salesforce. Yep. There was a a rigorous sort of like pipeline review by management of like, hey, looking at all the deals, especially the bigger, more mature deals and calling things out, hey, you know, do you want do you know who your decision maker is?
EDDIE31:51Do you know what like their decision making criteria is it's et Cetera is constantly like grilling you about deals on the same exact set of questions. Not to mention, of course, like now. Like since I've left Salesforce and they were using quip for the last number of years, like seeing like the same questionnaire, copy paste it into quip and you just see like I've worked with hundreds of acres at Salesforce and you see like they're all asking the same questions.
EDDIE32:13How do you think about making sure that that training turns into like daily muscle memory? That's where I was going with that question.
DOUG32:19Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's it's there's like three elements. I mean, part of the reason why it landed with you and when you got to Salesforce, you're like, I already know all this is because, you know.
EDDIE32:31When I got to Salesforce, I wanted to went to training six months into my tenure at Salesforce.
DOUG32:35Yeah. Right, right. Fair fair point. But still, six months in, you're like, oh yeah, get it? I mean, what does that tell you that is like that, that it has to be something that is simple to follow, repeatable. And people have had success with it. When those three things exist, then it's easy to get buy in, because fundamentally we're all just trying to get buy in.
DOUG32:58Right. So this whole notion of like buyer fluency, we've got to get buy in on that. Otherwise if if people are like, great, that sounds like a bunch of fluff, it's like then it's going to fall flat, right? And so what do we do? It's like, well, what what how do we explain this in practical terms? What does this actually mean for a seller in terms of the things that they need to do and understand?
DOUG33:18And then how do we continue to reinforce it? And how do we show success stories or examples of how this is actually used in practice? Because without those, each and every one of those steps, it's going to every no, any program you want to implement. Without those steps things are going to fall flat.
DOUG33:36Right. So even it goes down like it goes down to redesigning a manager deal review.
DOUG33:41So typically in a manager deal review it's like well what's the next step. How about this. Managers ask your rep this what does the buyer need to believe next.
DOUG33:51Think about that. It's different from what's the next step because that's seller focused. It's shifted to what does the buyer need to believe next. The buyer needs to believe that they can actually get their CMO to come to a meeting to have a conversation about this. That's what the buyer needs to believe can happen.
EDDIE34:08Love that. Absolutely love that.
DOUG34:11Like, like instead of enablement, support like more content like let's organize content by buyer situations, not products or sales stages.
EDDIE34:24That makes sense. So let me move on to the next piece in the process. So we talked about prequel planning. We talked about the first call when I was reading through your website. You know, you touched on
EDDIE34:36reengaging the deal when it stalls, or even just following up on the deal is it's not moving. Like, could you talk a little bit more about that?
EDDIE34:42You shared some specific examples in your website, and I would love if you'd drill into that, because I think it's such a common challenge where it's like, oh, we had a first good call or two, and then now what? I'm checking in. Doug, I just want to check in with you.
DOUG34:54Well, we know checking in or like, you know, touching base doesn't work. You know, thanks, John Barrows for that. So touching basin chicken and never, never works. I mean, look, I think at the at the end of the day, what's the purpose of every call. It's to earn the next call. Purpose of every conversation is earn the next conversation.
DOUG35:15And so I think the important thing is like less about like what do we need to do next? And first and foremost, make sure that we're on the same page. Have we learned another conversation? And if so, who else needs to be involved in that conversation? If so, what do we need to accomplish in that conversation? What what belief do we need to help you navigate in that next conversation?
DOUG35:37What beliefs are the other people are going to be involved in this conversation? What what might they likely have? And so like when I think about and you'll notice, there's a couple things. Number one, it's we're constantly focusing on like earning the next conversation, which is our job as sellers. And we're also thinking about multiple stakeholders involved in the deal because there's going to be multiple people involved in the deal.
DOUG35:59And the reason why a lot of deals stall is because we can't get enough momentum. And amongst the buying group, one person is excited and interested and they want to dig in and learn more. And the problem to everybody else, the problem just isn't big enough either, because they feel like it's not that relevant or important to them in their role and what they're trying to accomplish.
DOUG36:20Fundamentally, that person just doesn't have enough clout in the organization to pull together a group to have a deeper conversation or discussion. So, you know, post meeting is is, I think, again, this is, you know, here's a crazy I'm a linguist at heart. Like language and words matter. And so even just the follow up from the previous conversation you just had with somebody to ensure that we're, you know, we've earned the right for another conversation.
DOUG36:45It's that language that you even use right in, in like, hey, here's what it sounds to me like was really important. Here are some of the beliefs that you might currently have that we know we need to maybe unpack. Here's where you share shared in terms of other people needing to be involved or likely needing to be involved, and here are some beliefs that they might have.
DOUG37:06Cool.
DOUG37:07Have we earned the right to another conversation? If so, what do we need to do in order to get it on the books?
EDDIE37:13Love that. I think like my biggest takeaways from hearing you walk through this is just that. To me, it's just so much more of a human sale. And I think the thing that really greets me and a lot of other people is when you're working with a sales rep and you feel like they're just sort of like robotically going through this step by step process, and they're not really appreciating the situation that you're in, the challenges that you're facing, how you're having to sell this internally, the risk factors that you're facing, etc., etc..
EDDIE37:39And I think I sometimes take that for granted because, you know, we try to talk about sales process, like we're talking about the spectrum that goes from like the STR that was just promoted in their first like small business role and has never tried to close a deal before all the way up to the enterprise rep closing the $10 million deal.
EDDIE37:55And that is a very, very wide spectrum. And on the and on the left side of that spectrum, unfortunately, it's like these folks are given this playbook and they're just trying to figure it out. And I think like this is a really unfortunate reality of sales is I think that like especially junior salespeople, they just get nervous and they, like, fall back on their script or their bullet points or what have you, not because they, like, don't have the emotional intelligence to understand that it's just not a fit, but just that, like they're not sure what to do next.
DOUG38:28By the way, I'm not either. I've been doing this for a really long time. Here's a real live situation I'll give you just thinking about this. I have a customer that we've been working with. I know the SVP of sales. I know the ADP on the West. He's an old friend of mine. We got three people already.
DOUG38:48They were like, cool. Let's just do a quick POC on this. It's got 15 days. We got rev ops and we've got everybody involved. And I mean like literally top to bottom. We're like cool, let's do it. Smaller company but who cares. Like you know we want we want everybody in our product and.
DOUG39:06Totally disappeared ghosted. And everybody saw a few few times like, yeah, sorry, we're just really busy. Like I finally reached out to the head of their head of Rev ops, and I was like, so, I feel like this is no longer a priority. Something's changed. What's up? Because I don't know what to do. Like I'm not. I don't want to sit here and keep bugging you guys.
DOUG39:30You keep talking about how what you're doing right now, you know, isn't giving you, you know, kind of what you need. But the here's two problems that I recognize. One, they're killing it. Right. So they're they're being successful without some having some of the things in place that are, that they think are necessary and important. You know, what?
DOUG39:51If they're killing it, then they're killing it. And like, right on. Congratulations. Right, right. It's like when something's working, you don't want to stop and try and, like, introduce something new because you're like, it's already working. Yep. And so, like, I, you may not always have the answer to every situation, but guess what I did when I, when I reached out to person, I just called out the situation like it feels like the situation has changed.
DOUG40:16We did all this stuff and now the situation has changed. What's changed and what should we do about it? And he was like, feel like we should just put everything on a pause right now. And he explained the situation. He's like literally and a quarter this happening blah blah. And then and, and and I'm like, okay, cool. So so I took that note.
DOUG40:38I'm like, great back out to SCP. And I was like, feels like everything's changed. The situation changed. You guys are killing it. Like cool. Like, let's let's have another conversation when things are not working.
DOUG40:49Now I can do.
EDDIE40:51This is a perfect segue into like one of my next questions, which is, how do we know when to walk away from a deal? You and I talked offline about how the best reps always know when to walk away, and this is a perfect example of that. How do you think about that from like an on an organizational level?
EDDIE41:05Like I'll give you a concrete example that I'm thinking through here. I can't tell you how many clients we have, or we start working with them. And the first time we look at the pipeline, it's just full of like zombie pipeline. Like these deals are never going to close their, you know, three times the sales cycle. Like they haven't had a meeting in a month.
EDDIE41:21I mean, you've seen this as many times as I have in this new normal that you're describing. With all this AI research, how are you thinking about disqualifying deals or moving deals out of the pipeline and knowing when to walk away?
DOUG41:37So I think the first thing is we got to get out of this old, this old sales process where we're talking about what stage are we in, because that that orients the conversation in the wrong direction. I think we need to be more buyer centric and buyer focus. What buyers what situation is the buyer in? What does the buyer believe?
DOUG41:58And because when we understand those, if we understand what the buyer believes, for example, the company I was just telling you about, my hunch is they believe they've got enough tooling and they've got enough. They've got enough to do right now, and whatever they're doing is working. So my my hunch is their belief is like we don't we don't really have capacity introducing introduce anything new.
DOUG42:24And we're also being really successful. So like we're kind of good. All right. Great I think at the you know so like the more buyer centric we get in how we think about every one of our deals. It it starts to shift us to being smarter about the judgment that we're using about every deal. Right. It's not just about activity, it's about judgment of the deal.
DOUG42:50In this particular case, it's like, look, I've got a great relationship with all of them. Like, look, I'm not going to waste your time. I don't want to waste my time either. I got so much to do now. This becomes really difficult when you're an organization that's maybe over hired and you're like, you can maybe see getting to your number, like there's only 1 or 2 paths to get to your number and every deal counts, right?
DOUG43:13That's like the scarcity mentality, I get it. Totally been there. And in that situation, like we all have happy years, by the way, I do too. I mean, like, none of us are impervious and not doing these things because we do.
DOUG43:29So, like, are we, are we just being honest with ourselves and then going back to like like how do we how do we operationalize judgment in our own organization?
EDDIE43:38It's interesting though because it's like, I can't tell if you're saying like, let's do things the way Salesforce did it or let's do it the opposite. But the way I'm hearing it, I'm thinking like at least the team I was on, the way things operated, there was a lot of that very like, you know, older methodology, but like you've got all these different fields and Salesforce.
EDDIE43:55Sometimes they're filled out, sometimes they're not. And you have this level of intelligence that a group of people can use to sit around and have a really well informed conversation. And it was never just like, what's the next step? They might have been slightly different questions from what you're sharing, but the experience that I had, which is part of the reason why I started this company and became passionate about this topic, is that I felt like I was just constantly getting this same series of questions from everyone in the organization and questions that made sense, like, you know, what are the red flags?
EDDIE44:24Like, who's the decision maker? What are they like? How are they evaluating this decision? How are they selling this internally? You know, all of these questions. And I felt like you just got it again and again and again, day after day after day, to the point where, like, if you don't get it after a couple months, like you, I don't know what you've been doing at work all day.
EDDIE44:43Yeah. And for me, like, that's so powerful. And then you translate that into management deal reviews. And I think it's the same thing that you're saying. It's like, I can imagine an organization where if the manager ever looks to the pipeline, they're just like, what's the next step on this deal? What's the next step on this deal? What's the next step on this deal?
EDDIE44:58And that's obviously not deep enough. And when it comes down to saying like, where is this buyer at in this journey? What do they need to do next? I love the idea of what do they need to believe next? And how do they get to this place where they solve this problem or do they need to? And I love the idea that you're sharing in this particular example because as a buyer, I feel this, you know, I think we all do.
EDDIE45:21We get these like emails 15 times a day. And it's like, here's a new problem that you're probably facing in your business. And I'm like, yeah, I didn't know I had that problem, but I probably do. But you know what? Like, I've got 99 problems and I can only focus on one of them right now.
DOUG45:34Totally.
EDDIE45:35And that problem you just emailed me about is not the one I'm focused on.
DOUG45:39Not the one. And by the way, that's why we say like like generating pipeline and getting meetings about timing and relevance. Like it could be a perfect fit, but the timing is off because you know what? Like guess what? In a week. Do you know what? Everybody listening to this in a week get Eddie's not going to have any time for anybody because he about to have baby another one.
DOUG45:56And so sorry. I hope that wasn't too personal to share.
EDDIE45:59No you're fine, but we'll probably it'll be like six weeks before we publish this thing, but yeah.
DOUG46:03Oh, yeah. Well fine. Okay. But either way, you're still going to be in the middle of diapers and poop and and trying.
EDDIE46:09To get it, man. The first one hasn't gotten out of that stage.
DOUG46:12So this is what I mean. You're going to be doubly in it. So the reality is, is anybody who wants to do a deal with you, it's got to recognize, like, who this thing has got to be a hair on fire problem for you in order to put any energy behind it, because otherwise you're just not going to have capacity for a while.
DOUG46:27Cool. So if I know that, guess what? You know I'm going to support. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop reaching out to you. I might do some nurturing. I might be like, hey, and because at some point the timing is going to click and you'll be like, I need to have a conversation with Doug that like, because I've, I've earned it over time.
EDDIE46:45But I would argue, even if that wasn't the situation, even if I'm literally like sitting on the beach toes in the stand, you know, sipping margaritas, which I vividly remember closing this deal in 2018, shortly after I started this business. And exactly that situation. It doesn't matter because, like, at least for me, I'm a big believer in focus.
EDDIE47:04And I'm like, you know what? If this isn't a hair on fire problem, I could be making the next cold call. I could be hiring the next sales rep. I could be hiring a crow in my organization. There's something else that I could be doing than this thing that you're talking to me about, Mr. Seller. Yeah. And less.
EDDIE47:21My hair is on fire. I've already got a list of priorities that's more important than that.
DOUG47:25Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's so part of our job as sellers is to try and anticipate the 18 other priorities that you likely have that are likely more important than having this conversation.
DOUG47:36That's our that's part of our job is like to anticipate, like, hey, listen, I appreciate the fact that you and taking the time to have this conversation, I want to make sure that we both get the most value out of this conversation.
DOUG47:47At the end of the day, my job is to earn the right to have another conversation. If I have not done that, then we walk away. Everything's good. You go put your feet back in the sand, drink another margarita on me. I mean, if I'm if I'm prepared and I've done my homework, I can I can likely do a pretty good job of anticipating what you might be thinking about, what you might be working on, what other priorities might be going on in your world.
EDDIE48:14Love it. Well, in the spirit of trying to make this conversation valuable, we're running up on time, and I. I've run up to the end of my questions, and I want to ask you, Doug, is there anything I didn't ask that we should have covered that you think would be valuable to the audience on this topic?
DOUG48:31I love how I love how the lights are going out as as we're as we're talking. I know I got to keep standing up.
EDDIE48:37I gotta it's very dramatic.
DOUG48:38Yeah, it was very dramatic. That was kind of perfect. Yeah, yeah. Hold on. What have I done yet? But wait, just one more question. Was that who was the the investigator that always asked that? Wait, I was just one more question, old guy.
EDDIE48:55Colombo.
DOUG48:56Yeah, yeah, yeah. Colombo I think it was. Yeah, yeah. There you go.
DOUG49:00I want to get everybody comfortable with this concept of situational fluency because it just acknowledges the fact that sellers just are stepping into a way more dynamic and fluid environment. And so as as leaders, as support, you know, functions, we need to be thinking about how do we become more buyer ready?
DOUG49:23How do we help sellers do a better job of interpreting the situations? How do we support them to walk into any situation, even though the situation, even when the situation might change in the last minute? There's a level of situational awareness that I think we all need to be more acutely aware of. And then from that, I think we need to be thoughtful about, like, how do we how do we operationalize this, this buyer fluency, this what what I call it the B Sam the buyer situation operating model, is that right?
DOUG49:55I think so,
DOUG49:55And take a look at your your sales process and think like where can I incorporate buyer situations. How do I how do I how do I change the questions we're all asking? One of the things you mentioned that came to mind was, you know, part of the reason there's a guy named Dave, I don't know if you remember him from Salesforce Days, like he's like OG, og, og.
DOUG50:16One of the best sales leaders ever. Because he, he had this playbook of like he was very clear about the questions. It's kind of like my belief right now, which is like, if you can't get your prospect to answer why they why changing might make sense if you can't get them to put that into their own words and say that back to you, you don't have an opportunity.
EDDIE50:37That's the thing that I talk to you about offline. Like I try not to be. What's the word about it like combative about it. But like internally my mentality is like, if you can't sell me on why you have to solve your problem, why would I try to sell you that? I have the solution to that problem. And the way that I like to approach that is, is like just asking simple questions, like, like I've done this many times on a sales call and it's like, so what happens if we just don't do anything for six months?
EDDIE51:02Like, is that a big deal?
DOUG51:03I mean.
EDDIE51:03They're like, yeah, no, I mean like, I mean we're still good. It's like, what are my chances of winning that deal?
DOUG51:08None. Very slim. 5% 10% maybe I don't I mean, you know, you're a good looking man. So like maybe they're just like, well, Eddie, I want to hang out with you. Like, the reality is, is, again, it goes back to that, like the fundamentals of, like, why change? Why now? Why us or whatever order you want to do it?
DOUG51:26But the first thing is, like, you got to fully get them to think, well, changing might make a ton of sense. And here's why. Cool. Let's let's spend some time there. You know, the flip side of that as a leader, you know, as a sales leader, you might ask. Well, okay, why why why are they going to walk away from this deal?
DOUG51:46Why don't they want to do this deal? Why? Why what what could likely change in their situation that can get them to walk away from the table?
EDDIE51:57Yep.
DOUG51:58Right. We had a deal working with a huge company. Huge. I mean, been working on this deal for six months, maybe longer and got went all the way to the president. Signed it like sweet security review took months. Like God, we're good. We're in. Guess what. Next week president got let go. New president came in, froze all deals.
EDDIE52:22Yep I you know I was working a deal recently and I'm talking to the CMO and the CRL and it's like okay, like I know the CEO has to sign off on this. And it's like, can we win the CEO over this, that and the other? And I'm I'm going through this like very similar conversation. What you describing with the CMO?
EDDIE52:36We have a good relationship at this point. I'm trying to figure out how we get this thing done. And he's just like, oh yeah, by the way, like this CEO is going to be out in like a month. And it's like, okay, well, we're not getting his sign off.
EDDIE52:47You know, like, you know, the old school mentality is like, well, okay, who's the decision maker?
EDDIE52:51It's the CEO. So I've got to get in front of him and I and then it's like, well, what's going on with the CEO? Well he's going to be leaving the organization in a month. Okay. Well shit. Well shit. Okay. That throws a curveball on things.
DOUG53:04Yeah. Well, in that case you're like, great. So what do you believe? We can do? What do you believe is the best thing for us to do that?
EDDIE53:16Yep.
DOUG53:17Think about that question. What do you believe? Get to your belief. What do you believe is the best thing for us to do? Well, I believe we I, I believe we can push it through. You do? Awesome. Let's push you through that.
EDDIE53:28A great way. In the podcast, Doug, we are at time, so I want to thank you for your time. How can people find you.
DOUG53:34Doug at story Pathi go to our go to our website. If you want to request access to it, I'll give you access. Find me on LinkedIn. Just Doug Landis.
DOUG53:44Cool. That's it.
EDDIE53:45I like how the lights go down as you close.
DOUG53:47Yeah. Not intentional. Just luck.
EDDIE53:51Thanks. Thanks so much for joining us today.
DOUG53:53Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it man.
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